Hi !

I will begin with appolaguise for using wrong terms, bad spelling and my even worse grammar.
(English is not my birth language.)

Also I may have posted this thread in the wrong forum since I donīt know whats the core in my problem,
it could also be BIOS, IDE Controllers or Windows related.

I have an old computer, Packard Bell, with OS Windows 98, Swedish language.
Mounted Two harddrives from Two even older computers that was going to be junked.

Before mounting:
IDE-0 Factory harddrive Master jumper C:
IDE-1 Empty
IDE-2 Factory DVD/CDROM Master jumper Q:
IDE-3 Empty

After Mounting:
IDE-0 Factory harddrive - 6.4 GB Master jumper C:
IDE-1 Seagate ST310232A - 10.2 GB Slave jumper D:
IDE-2 Fujitsu M1624TAU - 2.1 GB Master jumper E:
IDE-3 Factory DVD/CDROM Slave jumper Q:

Driver for IDE-bus = "Intel 82371 AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller"
In BIOS all drives are in AUTO with LBA enabled

All drives have been repartitioned, formatted (FAT32) and tested with scandisk surfacetest without any problems.

Problem description:
All drives work well without any problems until I change any 'whatsoever' settings that causes Windows to shut down and restart,
for the new settings to take effect, or if I blackout AUTOEXEC.bat or CONFIG.sys with "REM" to make Windows load faster.

Then the the following problem occurs:
- Drive E: is used in MS-DOS Compatibility mode
- DVD/CDROM is missing (No DOS driver loaded)

Before the change there is no conflicts or problem listed in Device Manager and after
the E: drive and DVD/CDROM doesnīt show up at all.
But they still exists in the registry under "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\ENUM\ -ESDI -SCSI".

I have tried FDISK /MBR and shearched registry for NO-IDE or BAD-IDE without luck.

When this happens IO.sys creates a file IOS.log where the first Two lines states:
- "ESDI data miscompare" witch comes from ESDI_506.pdr
- "Unit number 04 going through real mode drivers" witch comes from RMM.pdr
Unit number 04 is problably my E: if drive letters are converted with A: = 00, eg: B=01 and so on.

SysInfo (MSINFO32.exe) states: "Second IDE-driver is faulty Error Code = 10 (0xA)

And also a funny thing - if I clone my C: to E: and change BIOS to Boot from IDE-2
then I canīt succeded in forceing this problem to occur in any way.
I wouldnīt prefere to use my slowest driver to boot from, neither the second IDE-bus.

In DOS there is no problems, of course I will have to load the DVD/CDROM driver.

So if anyone have any deeeeeper experience I would apprechiate some good advise !
(I have been wrestling with this for Four weeks now, this is way over my head and my air is runnig low...)

This is how I would set up the drives

Primary channel
10.2 gig HDD master
6.4 gig HDD slave

Secondary channel
DVD master
2.1gig HDD slave

I would only put the two masters in first then install windows, then add the two slaves.

Now to the problem

Intel 82371 AB/EB Pci Bus Master IDE Controller

MS-DOS Compatibility Mode Problems with PCI IDE Controllers
SYMPTOMS
If your computer contains a Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) Integrated Drive Electronics (IDE) hard disk controller that employs serialization between the two IDE channels, you may experience the following behaviours:
· 32-bit file system access and 32-bit virtual memory are not available
-and-
· Device Manager displays an exclamation point (!) in a yellow circle for the primary and secondary IDE channels
If you uninstall and then reinstall the hard disk controller, this behaviour is not resolved.
CAUSE
This behaviour can occur if the protected-mode driver for the hard disk controller is not properly initialised when you start Windows. When this occurs, a NOIDE value is placed in the registry which prevents Windows from making future attempts to initialise the protected-mode driver.
RESOLUTION

All Versions
To cause Windows to attempt to reinitialise the protected-mode IDE driver:
1. Click Start, click Run, type regedit in the Open box, and then press ENTER.
2. Locate and click the following registry key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\VxD\IOS
3. In the right pane, right-click the NOIDE value, and then click Delete.
4. Quit Registry Editor.
After you update the registry, restart Windows. Windows attempts to initialise the protected-mode driver for the controller. If Windows can initialise the protected-mode driver for the controller, the file system and virtual memory operate in 32-bit mode and Device Manager does not display an exclamation point in a yellow circle for the IDE channels.

If the protected-mode driver is not initialised properly, you receive an error message and the NOIDE value is re-created. Windows uses the MS-DOS Compatibility mode file system the next time that you start the computer.
Windows 98 Only
If you are running Windows 98 on your computer, locate the Tools\Mtsutil folder on the Windows 98 CD-ROM, right-click the Noide.inf file, and then click Install. When you do this, the NOIDE value is deleted if it exists. After you use this file, restart your computer.
MORE INFORMATION
This issue can occur if your computer has an IDE controller that requires serialization between the primary and secondary IDE channels. The protected-mode drivers for these IDE controllers may not be initialised if one of the following situations occurs:
· If one IDE channel has a supported hard disk, and the second channel has a CD-ROM or another type of drive that requires Real-mode drivers. Because there must be serialization between the two IDE channels, Windows cannot access the hard disk in Protected mode and use the other device in Real mode. When this occurs, the Protected-mode driver is not initialised and the NOIDE switch is placed in the registry to prevent future errors. Both disk devices can then operate in Real mode.
-or-
· If you manually remove the driver for the IDE controller from Device Manager and then reinstall it, or if you disable and then re-enable the protected-mode driver. Some PCI controller drivers are not designed for dynamic enabling and disabling, and can cause the Protected-mode driver to not initialise properly.
The Windows device drivers for the following controllers may cause this behaviour:

· Intel 82371 AB/EB Pci Bus Master IDE Controller
· CMD PCI-0640 PCI-IDE controller
· Standard Dual PCI-IDE controller
· Opti Dual PCI-IDE controller
· Ali M5229 PCI Busmaster IDE Controller
·
Other PCI IDE controllers that use serialization between the IDE channels may also cause this behaviour.

Hi Peter,

First of all why would You make the DVD master ?

Second, I can see You have done some reading on the Microsoft Support pages.

Well I have read all that to, and mybe I am stupid, but it wont help me at all...

- There is NO "NOIDE" in the registry !
- I am NOT loading any driver for DVD in CONFIG.sys ! (So witch unit requires Real-mode drivers and why ?)
- If it is a serialization problem, then how come its gone when OS is on the 2.1 gig drive ???

What exactly do You want me to do ?

Disconnect 2gig drive or take it out altogether
See if this makes a difference
Are both channels enabled for DMA

What model is the board and how old is the BIOS

Primary channel
10.2 gig HDD master
6.4 gig HDD slave

Secondary channel
DVD master

install win98

Hi Peter !

If 2.1 gig disconnected = No Problems (But 2.1 gig less total storage area.)

All Four IDE-Channels have DMA enabled. (Port-1 IDE-0 + IDE-1 Port-2 IDE-3 + IDE-4)
Intel 82371 AB/EB Pci Bus Master IDE Controller have both channels enabled.

Mobo = Packard Bell MediaBlaster. (Computer = Packard Bell Multimedia 350)

Age of computer and BIOS I guess from -98 or -99. (BIOS have No problems in reporting the drives.)

(Port-1 IDE-0 + IDE-1 Port-2 IDE-3 + IDE-4)

Should be -> (Port-1 IDE-0 + IDE-1 Port-2 IDE-2 + IDE-3)

The 10gig drive will be properly using 66
The 6gig drive will be properly using 33

The 2gig drive will be PIO 3 or 4

If you need more room you need a bigger drive. 40 gig drives are about Ģ40 in the UK If you update the drive to 40 gig the next problem might well be the BIOS I think your old computer will only see 32gig. You can update the bios if one is available or use a disk manager from the manufactures site ie Seagate/Maxtor I have these programs on file.

ATA-5 / ATA/ATAPI-5
ATA-5 is a standard approved by ANSI in 2000 under document NCITS 340-2000. ATA-5 adds support for Ultra-DMA/66, which is capable of supporting data transfer rates of up to 66MBps, and has the capability of detecting between 40 or 80-wire cables.

ATA-4 / ATAPI-4 / ATA/ATAPI-4
ATA-4 is a standard approved by ANSI in 1998 under document NCITS 317-1998. ATA-4 includes the ATAPI packet command feature, introduces UDMA/33 also known as ultra-DMA/33 or ultra-ATA/33, which is capable of supporting data transfer rates of up to 33MBps.

ATA-2 / EIDE / Fast ATA / Fast IDE / Ultra ATA
ATA-2 more commonly known as EIDE and sometimes known as Fast ATA or Fast IDE is a standard approved by ANSI in 1996 under document number X3.279-1996. ATA-2 introduces new PIO modes of 3 and 4, has a transfer rate of up to 16.6MBps, DMA modes 1 and 2, LBA support, supports drives up to 8.4GB. Today ATA-2 is now considered obsolete.

Hi Peter !

BIOS is dated 1998 and Mobo is version 2 with Chipset Intel 440BX AGPset.

6 and 10 gig uses EIDE-interface and 2 gig uses ATA-2 according to manufactures site.

Are You suggesting that insted of solving this problem I should buy a new drive to my old computer and then get new problems ???
Then I might as well buy a hole brand new computer !

Well I canīt afford that and this is an OLD computer witch is NOT worth putting any money in.
2 gig is not anything these days but it makes a difference for me, if needed I will sadly junk it but not replace.

Also I am "stubborn as a mule" and really, really wants this to work and if not at least know why it didnīt !!!

From all the sources I have found - friends, on internet, this and other forums, the 2 gig drive should not be a problem.
It looks more and more like some kind of conflict witch can be avoided in several different ways.
For instance one way is having the OS on the 2 gig drive and booting from it.

So how do you hunt down and eliminate this and other cinds of conflicts ???
( Or is it common to spend money on new devices until it works by itself ? :)

Things to do

Put in a PCI card with a IDE controller on (should make a difference)
Update the bios if possible (may or may not help)
Update the operating system ME/2000 (may help)
Install another hard drive to replace the 2gig ie 6/10gig or the max it will take 32gig

As this is an older computer there will be a limit as to how much the computer can do.

Intel 440BX Chipset
Integrated IDE controller supports up to UDMA/33
AGP 2X
66Mhz and 100Mhz processor bus speeds
Support for two USB ports

As this is an older computer there will be a limit as to how much the computer can do.

This OLD computer has NO problems/limits while doing this if OS is on 2 gig drive.

This is a long shot but here goes ---

Your problems all seem to revolve around that 2 Gbyte disk taken from an old computer. Somewhere in a Windows help file (Reskit I think - it's on your Win98 disk) it says that if you are using FAT32 and your disk has a remapping utility installed then Windows will use DOS compatability mode for that disk. I don't know what will then happen to a DVD drive on the same bus but I would expect some trouble.

These remapping utilities were very common on big disks fitted to old computers whose BIOS's couldn't read beyond 1024 cylinders. They live in the master boot record so you can't see them with explorer. FORMAT and FDISK wont shift them either. I'm told that FDISK /MBR should do it but I've never tried this. It might only work on drive C.

To be sure of cleaning out your MBR you can try this bit of machine code. Install the disk you want to clean as primary master and remove all others. Boot from a DOS floppy with DEBUG on it and then ---

DEBUG (ENTER)
;ONCE YOU SEE THE DEBUG DASH PROMPT (-) TYPE IN THE FOLLOWING:

A (ENTER)
;DEBUG WILL NOW OUTPUT A SERIES OF LETTERS AND NUMBERS. NOW ENTER:
MOV AX,330 (ENTER)
MOV CX,1 (ENTER)
MOV DX,80 (ENTER)
MOV BX,3800 (ENTER)
MOV ES,BX (ENTER)
INT 13 (ENTER)
INT 3 (ENTER)
(ENTER)
G (ENTER)
Q (ENTER)

YOU SHOULD NOW BE BACK AT AN A: PROMPT.

The disk will now be as clean as the day it left the factory - and your data will be gone so back up anything you want to keep first! You can now partition and format it.

Hi Felix !

I have done some reading in this forum on similar problems and found Your earlier posts where You suggested this solution so I have in fact already tried it on my 2 gig drive and it did not help.

The problem is with my ESDI_506.pdr file, Version 4.10.1998, if I replace it with a earlier Version, 4.00.950, (mybee from Win95?), then the problems are gone.

However this old version my cripple my system and give me other problems later on, witch Version do You recommend and where can I find it ?

On DriverGuide there is only Two Versions 4.00.950 and 4.10.2222, the latest is even worse than my original.

Well I have now collected all versions easily found with GOOGLE and the only one that is working inside my system seems to be the oldest.

So I guess that I have to settle with version 4.00.950 problably for Windows 95...

Also worth mentioning for others with similar problems is that Intel has upgrad patches for Chipsets that also my solve this, "InfInst_ENU.exe".
(Did not solve my problem but may have speeded up my system)

Did you ever install the Chipset Helper Drivers ( sometimes called mini port drivers ) for the Intel chipset used on your motherboard?
http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/support_intel.asp
From the download menu choose Chipset, Chipset Software, Chipset ID Utility.
http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/Product_Filter.asp?ProductID=861

Once you ID the chipset download and install the proper chipset driver.inf file for you motherboard.
Chipset, Desktop Chipset, ( pick your chipset used )
This should correct your hard drives being supported in MS-DOS Compatibility mode.

P/S

Enabling DAM on hard drives that do not support it will force Win98 into DOS Compatablity Mode.
Newer versions of Windows will disable DMA for hard drives if it detects they do not support it after a reboot.

http://www.wintrouble.net/discus/messages/64/1164.html?976137613
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;Q159560&ID=KB;EN-US;Q159560

"All Four IDE-Channels have DMA enabled."

Hi Mainbuss

My Chipset = Intel 440BX AGPset - Mem controller 82443BX/DX/ZX - I/O controller 82371EB (PIIX4E)

I canīt find any 'Chipset Helper Drivers' only thing (yet) not downloaded is USB drivers.

Doesnīt "InfInst_ENU.exe" include and install proper chipset driver.inf file for motherboard ???

Funny how the replys gets mixed when someone is posting while your also posting ...
(Hope You arenīt posting again while I am writing this Reply)

Windows doesnīt disable DMA when rebooting and with version '950' or if booting from E: drive there is NO problem with or whitout DMA enabled !

Also after new installation of OS I can have all Four drives with DMA enabled without problems as long as I donīt try to change any settings.
(The drives gets DMA enabled by Windows first time, not by me.)

Okey, now I have tested my Harddrives with the suggested DEBUG DMA Test:

Drive C: supports DMA mode 1 and mode 2
Drive D: supports DMA mode 1 and mode 2
Drive E: supports DMA mode 1 and mode 2
Drive Q: supports DMA mode 1 and mode 2 (If this test is valid for CDROMs)

And I also found out that this "InfInst_ENU.exe" upgrade from Intel has messed up my system totally !
At first I thought it was only my CDROM so I used REGEDIT to fix it but now I discovered that my soundcard is not working properly and the gamecontroller is not working at all.
And I guess there is a lot more to come so I will start all over without Intels "upgrade" and only change ESDI_506.pdr.

INFINST_ENU.exe v3.20.1008 5/6/2002
INFINST.exe v5.1.1.1002 12/12/2003 This is the latest version
http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/Filter_Results.asp?strOSs=All&strTypes=DRV%2CARC%2CUTL&ProductID=129&OSFullName=All+Operating+Systems

One of the biggest changes between Win98 and Win98SE was support for A.C.P.I. (Advanced Configuration and Power Interface). If you have researched your motherboard and confirmed it has the "latest" B.I.O.S. and "know" it is A.C.P.I. compliant it may be best to install Win98SE and use the newer version of INFINST.exe.

I think the "Advanced Configuration" part of A.C.P.I. will help you.

http://www.computerbits.com/archive/2000/0200/acpi.html

http://tech-report.com/columns/ryu/1207.x
For Windows 98, 98SE, and ME, add the switch "/p j" after you type "setup" at the DOS prompt. This will force ACPI compliance if your motherboard supports it. If your motherboard does not support it, Windows will simply drop back into IRQ Routing mode, since you can't enable ACPI on a system that doesn't support it. That's not to say you can't enable ACPI on a system that supports ACPI poorly, though.

http://www.pchardware.ro/Articles/article.php?id=127
"The reasons why you should use ACPI are multiple, but the most important are:"
"ACPI should make your life easier because it handles the resources problems"

Hi Mainbuss !

Thanks for all the time you have spent searching for links for me !

But I donīt think changing to SE and A.C.P.I. will help for several resons:
- The Protected-mode IDE driver in SE is ESDI_506.pdr version 4.10.2222 witch donīt solve my problem.
- Intels "upgrade" comes with more problems than it solves. (My experience)
- This A.C.P.I. seems to have the odds of "infinitely rare" to be working correct.
- I will not mess with my BIOS, it is running like a clock and have no problems.

Also Packard Bell have done some 'Tveaking' with my OS witch I will lose for sure if changing.
(Includes: Keybord Special Buttons, On Screen Display and other special features)

So I will stick to the simplest solution, witch often is the best, and just replace the IDE driver.
(It Works, is Easy and most of all NOT Time-consuming.)

General network security practices would dictate that you use the smaller of the hard drives for OS (so long as it meets space requirements) and C: dependent software ONLY. All other progs and data should be kept on a separate drive. If a hacker finds his way to your C: drive and doesn't see anything interesting (just an OS) your data is still beyond view in the D: (or whatever) drive. Of course, it is never completely safe, however, it will provide an extra level of security that the average hacker doesn't take the time to delve into. Therefore, it is not advisable to use your larger drive for the OS and smaller one for storage.

Hola
Quisas el problema se solucione si montas como esclavo el DVD en IDE-1
o sea:
IDE-0 el disco master primario
IDE-1 dvd como esclavo
IDE-3 y 4 los otros discos como master y esclavos respectivamente.